awareness... 

for me, notions of self distill down to awareness, never to a thing, much like dao.

I'm a beginner so take my words with a LOT of salt but I think what points towards the direction of the self is how unspecial we are.

We're evolved yeast to evolved monkeys to humans. It could have easily been any other sapien offshoot and not humans... Our physical existence seems to just be lucky and random events. That's the evolution standpoint at least.

But in understanding how insignificant we really are, I can see where to look and why humans are referred to as "Most honorable bipedals". The fact that we can fathom not being human, not existing, etc... That is what makes us special and in a way, blessed. For if I couldn't even fathom "not being" then the path to cultivating awareness and finding the self would be nearly impossible. 

when i grew too exhausted from the search...

when hope of finding what i sought finally settled in abject failure...

when i gave up all process... that is when i found it.

right there, all along it was

covered over by the frenzy of the seeking

the very seeking masked what was sought.

my assumption that the answer must lie 'out there'

in some teacher, book, camping site

caused me to miss its presence

the answer lay within, in the very inception of the questioning.

"what i sought, is what was seeking."

Navid--

The way I understand it, is that the All could be compared to the ocean.  We are all little individual waves, thinking we are different from one another.  We don't realize that we're the ocean.

The same presence that you have in you - that warm indwelling presence inside you, is the very same I have in me.  It is the same "entity".  We are the sensory extension of Life as a Whole, wherein we are the lucky ones that get to taste, smell, touch, etc.  That presence, the entity, is the Law upon which everything is subject.  This is why we contain the answers inside us, as Silent Thunder just said.

Getting down to the true self - the Unconditioned self - is a peeling away process.  Although much can be learned from books, masters, and rinpoche's, the culmination of all that brain learning doesn't really get you to self-realization.  That is 'realized' as we peel away the conditionings within ourselves.  In my particular case, I had to peel away alcoholism, just plain meanness, arrogance, sarcasm - the list goes on.  The peeling process seems to go on forever, and it may never be finished.  

This phrase:  Be still and know that I AM god.  Not a separate entity, but the Intelligence that causes the cells in embryos to line up correctly, one by one, - and depending on how they line up, a finger or an ear manifests.  It's that intelligence, contained within everything, that is spoken of here.  We, actually, are god.

Perhaps what is not so special is the endless, repetitive, and dysfunctional inner process which chooses, judges, and narrates. It is not so special because it is largely composed of layers of trying to satisfy others’ expectations beginning in early childhood, more accurately beginning in previous lives or our ancestors, whatever makes sense to you. Those of parents, grandparents, teachers, bosses, societies, lawmakers, on and on ad infinitum. This is who “me” is before the seeking process begins and it does not see it’s nature as an inheritance of dysfunction. As Jiddu Krishnamurti said, ‘it is no sign of health to be well adjusted to such a sick society,’ but this is what adjustment expects.

While we may be fortunate enough to find what we need when we drop the search, that has its time and place IMO. There are those of us that need to search - until we no longer need it. That search is the peeling away of these layers of “adjustment.” As they peel away, I can often identify precisely where they came from, other times not. In the end, that isn’t so important. Peter Fenner captures this succinctly - ‘if I didn’t do what I didn’t need to do I wouldn’t know I didn’t need to do it.’

My core practice is precisely what Silent Thunder points to, letting everything drop away, especially the me. And when “me” is quiet and settled enough, a far deeper and more pervasive truth shines with a clarity and certainty that is unmistakable. Tibetans call that Rigpa, the knowing of the truth of your fundamental essence. Several members here have found that and you can easily tell who when you’ve had a taste. There is nothing that is not special about that. Before having that taste, however, it can be elusive and our talk about the ease and simplicity can lead to frustration, impatience, even anger. We see that from time to time on another forum. So be very patient with yourself, and with us. This is a process that is slow and demanding for most bit you have found a place to bounce ideas and experiences off of several who have truly gone before and can give credible feedback. I’m glad you found us!

Sorry about all the quotes and sorry if I sound presumptuous or arrogant. I usually avoid speaking in quotes but sometimes they say it better than I can.

Posted by: @steve

‘if I didn’t do what I didn’t need to do I wouldn’t know I didn’t need to do it.’

Boy does that ring the bell.  The whole post resonates with fraternal truth, but this quoted bit was a fulcrum for my local awareness' to pivot about and expose the nature of my inner illusory landscape, perpetually created by 'The Storyteller' aka (the inner judge, jury and victim).  It was the tonic to dissolve the cloud of my assumptions.  It was the acid that ate away at the foundation of my world of illusions, created by the storyteller and maintained by the inertia of my emotional/thought cyclone response mechanism.  It has become the resonant core of my unfolding love affair with The Great Doubt.  

neti neti...

My subsequent experience with The Great Doubt and its action as a lense through which to observe The Storyteller, is why I no longer shy people away from certain practices that may not bring the truth, or assume I know what's right for other's to pursue, or avoid... for in looking back, what my awareness required along the path was most often not another truth, but the experience of real untruth.  I kept seeking the ultimate truths, but these, for me were inevitably reified into objects that further clouded the truth of experiential reality.  Truths for me often become fodder for the Storyteller to turn into another thing to grasp to, another badge of pride, to falsely identify with and hold up to others for agreement cuddles, or for contemptuous argumentation of validity...

what was needed was a radical dissolving of former assumptions and of my world view... and the best medicine for that in my case was a good repeated dose of experiencing what truth was not, embracing primal doubt and observing The Storyteller, not engaging.

Release is the action of self, for me.

It's the practice, the tonic and the result.

Doubt is a catalyst, at this time.

It was not always this way... all steps were part of the Path in whole.

But where the path is currently unfolding, release is the action, and result.

mudiest waters

undisturbed by meddling

rest in clarity

When absolutely everything is dropped and allowed to fall away... that which remains is what is...

i can't put it into words... it's not a concept that can be reified into a mental object... but in release it (self/true nature) can be embodied and lived... experientially.

awareness can live it in radical simplicity.  self... other... are not separate... there is only the great self which can be endlessly occluded behind mental notions, storyteller's fantasies and seekingness.  self and other are illusory

The Path and The Pathmaker... are not separate.  They are co-symptomatic expressions of one process.  They are not one and an other... but varying expressions of one process. 

ack, I'll try again later perhaps... i've lost the vein... gratefully.

neti neti... i don't know why i still compusively attempt to put words to a process that lies beyond such.

Posted by: @silent_thunder

When absolutely everything is dropped and allowed to fall away... that which remains is what is...

I remember once reading something by either Alan Watts, maybe even Osho...

They were discussing the difference between "belief" and "faith" and it really struck a chord with me, much like what you are saying here. They said something like, 'belief is when we accept an explanation for that which we cannot or do not have direct experience, faith is when we let all belief drop and recognize that what remains is truth.' Something like that. I find it a valuable and important distinction but some folks get uncomfortable with the word faith and conflate belief and faith.

Posted by: @silent_thunder

Awareness can live it in radical simplicity.  self... other... are not separate... there is only the great self which can be endlessly occluded behind mental notions, storyteller's fantasies and seekingness.  self and other are illusory

In the dzogchen teachings an important question often comes up, which is "if we let go of the self, the subject, in skillful meditation what is it that knows or experiences the Awareness of the Nature or Essence?" 

The answer that is given is, in Tibetan, 'rang rig' which means Nature is self aware, it knows itself. The subject and object are constructs that have beginning and end. Primordial wisdom is neither created nor destroyed. It simply is as it is.

Posted by: @steve

In the dzogchen teachings an important question often comes up, which is "if we let go of the self, the subject, in skillful meditation what is it that knows or experiences the Awareness of the Nature or Essence?" 

The answer that is given is, in Tibetan, 'rang rig' which means Nature is self aware, it knows itself. The subject and object are constructs that have beginning and end. Primordial wisdom is neither created nor destroyed. It simply is as it is.

timing... It's intriguing to me, that words I've encountered before, sometimes many times before, may be experienced as if with new eyes when conditions are ripe.

thanks for sharing these words as  you did, when you did... they really rang the bell in a way they never have previously.

*bow*

Posted by: @steve

They were discussing the difference between "belief" and "faith" and it really struck a chord with me, much like what you are saying here. They said something like, 'belief is when we accept an explanation for that which we cannot or do not have direct experience, faith is when we let all belief drop and recognize that what remains is truth.' Something like that. I find it a valuable and important distinction but some folks get uncomfortable with the word faith and conflate belief and faith.

 

Anon - I see 'belief' and 'faith' as pretty much the same thing.  Both involve an element of hoping.  I think what is ultimately attained is a 'knowing' that is not of the brain.

And that's when the knowing sets in.  You're right, it's got nothing to do with hope, faith, or belief.  It seems to be a combination of devotion to a principle, inner discovery and rehabilitation, sometimes a spiritual path, sometimes not, and letting life batter you around a bit.  As I see it, that demiurge being within seems to want to go up and up, guiding the way despite our mistakes.  It's like it wants to know itself and we are the sensory organ that lets it experience most fully, us human animals.

A very beautiful poem that was composed by The master Adi Shankaracharya goes like this --

ब्रह्मानन्दं परमसुखदं केवलं ज्ञानमूर्तिं
द्वन्द्वातीतं गगनसदृशं तत्वमस्यादिलक्ष्यम्
एकं नित्यं विमलमचलं सर्वधीसाक्षिभूतं
भावातीतं त्रिगुणरहितं सद्गुरुं तं नमामि

Brahmanandam parama sukhadam kevalam jnaanamurtim
Dvandvaateetam gaganasadrusham tatvamasyadi lakshyam
Ekam nityam vimalamachalam sarvadheesaakshibhuutam
Bhaavaateetam triguna rahitam sadgurum tam namaami.

I prostrate myself before that Guru, the Bliss of Brahman, the bestower of Supreme Happiness, who is Knowledge absolute, beyond duality, expansive like the sky, the goal indicated by the great sayings like “Thou art That”.  It is the one eternal, pure, unchanging, the witness of functions of the intellect, who is above all Bhavas (mental conditions) and the three Gunas (Sattva, Rajas and Tamas). Salutations to that Holy Guru.

Here "Guru" is the 'inner-guru' -- the Self, Atman/Brahman/Awareness/Dao whatever you want to call it...

Do you know what really blows me away about the Self / Atman, et al...?

That when an embryo is forming, all the multiplying cells are identical.  The thing that tells the cells whether it's to be a fingernail cell or a blood cell or a hair cell, is how they line up next to each other.  The  (*!*!) intelligence built into that is so hard to get my head around.  The oak is in the acorn.  The day I realized that, really realized that, was the day the cart went before the horse.  

It's funny what it takes for different people.  I guess it's all in the previous conditioning of the human as to what they need to hear right at that moment....

Wow... it's always incredible to me... when words often heard, repeatedly read come to light in a new level of understanding and revelation.  Like a bell ringing.

Absolute Pearls in this conversation for me here, now.

So grateful to you all that you spend of youselves here, your time, your insights.

Such gifts as these!

*deep bow*

Thank You!

Wow, awesome conversation. So many people were saying these things, but I couldn't understand or believe till recently... Still, where would I have looked if it was not brought up?

Oftentimes the modern world, and many of us living in it see ourselves as small little beings in a big universe. That the world is rigid and we are simply humans. Then others will say the soul exists within the body. These things are not the true, rather, the body, mind, and all of reality exist within the soul. And this reality we speak of is just a reflection of beliefs that have built up because our senses and distinctions. And so people might say, oh but I see the same reality everyday where is the magic? That is because they see from the same perspective everyday and only work at reinforcing that perspective. Our nature is not in this amalgamation of senses, rather it is infinity that contains all things.
Whether I see it now, or many lifetimes from now, the self is eternal and infinite. It will always be there, and I will always be it.

I really like this prayer from Vasistha's Yoga:

Salutations to that reality in which all the elements,
and all the animate and inanimate beings shine as if they have an independent existence,
and in which they exist for a time and into which they merge.

Salutations to that consciousness
which is the source of the apparently distinct threefold divisions of knower,
knowledge and known, seer, sight and seen, doer, doing and deed.

Salutations to that bliss absolute (the ocean of bliss)
which is the life of all beings whose happiness and unfoldment is derived
from the shower of spray from that ocean of bliss.

I'm put in mind of a quote from a dzogchen text called The 21 Nails, referring to the Nature:

It's positive qualities are inconceivable

Like the revelation of a king's treasure

The one who rests in its true meaning

Enjoys the inexhaustible wealth of its fruition