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Annoying brothers and sisters on the way

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Miroku
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[#16]

Hey,

 

have you ever encountered such person? I have an experience with one boy who took teachings from the same lama as me and therefore he is my vajra brother. He kind of reached out to me and I helped him along the way for over a year. I helped him with getting materials on dharma, showing teachers around etc. But the entire time he was so annoying. And not on purpose I guess, it is just his stubborn nature, plus he is 18 and ex-catholic. These three things can mess people up. ?

Long story short he got quite attached to me since I was the only one who he could share dharma with and also the fact that he is homosexual. I tried to be as supportive as possible, but weirdly it turned sour for me. He always has strong opinion on everything, despite not doing any research whatsoever (trait I might share a bit) and has tendency to evangelize and bash people with "truth" until they give in. Which is for a person like me probably the most annoying personality trait out there. Anyway, we had a falling out over fluffy dogs (sounds silly but I always wanted a fluffy dog and it might be bit personal to me) where he attacked the idea of having a fluffy dog because it is too hot for them, nowadays. And surprisingly that was the last straw for me and I cut most of the communication. He still asks some stupid questions and I don't have the heart to ignore him completely so I give either small explanation if I find it to be worth the effort, or just tell him off lightly if not. What bothers me the most is that now I have a hard time developing positive thoughts towards him now. 

 

Anyway ... if anybody can make something ut of this mess and discuss it or share your experiences with this, I would be glad. Do you think it was right for me to cut him off?


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dwai
 dwai
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@miroku yeah I can relate to annoying brothers and sisters on the way 🙂 

As we spend more time in meditation and mindfulness, other people's (and our own) character peculiarities become very apparent. It's like the things that were lurking in the background and ignored before come into focus. It is also true when we spend more time with someone (the old saying 'familiarity breeds contempt' is not there for nothing).

I have a brother who wants to always be right, always be the smartest one in the room. For materialistic purposes it might help, but for spiritual pursuits, it can be an impediment. But then, with time, if the person is sincere (as this person is), they start to see their own issues and can start to course-correct. 

I have another brother who has very strong karmic tendency for dharma/dao practice, but his acquired tendency of a skeptical scientist prevents him from ever fully accepting what his experiences tell him. Moreover, being an atheist, he is strongly colored by his atheist identification. 

Some behaviors are acquired in this life (learnt) and some are acquired in past lives (tendencies due to karma). Harder ones are the ones which arise from karmic seeds, but with proper guidance and self-inquiry, we can detect and resolve these issues if they are major. If they aren't, we just shrug and have the freedom (of choice) to let them go.

I think everyone we encounter in life is a teacher in some way or another. Can we let stuff go? Or do we have to react?

Can we observe and figure out what our own triggers are?

Can we observe and not react when our triggers are pressed?

 

 


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liminal_luke
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@miroku

Let´s see...an 18 year old ex-catholic homosexual that doesn´t like fluffy dogs?  Dump him immediately! 


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Miroku
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@liminal_luke ?  No dumping had to be done thankfully, but a fluffy dog is a line I am not willing to cross. 


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liminal_luke
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@miroku

I don´t blame you.  Of course there´s the spiritual perspective that this person came into your life so that you could learn some lesson; that he´s a mirror for something you could profitably look at inside yourself; blah, blah, blah.  All that is true enough, but if you really need to be annoyed that way for some overarching karmic reason, the universe will send another annoying person your way soon enough.

Life is short.


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manitou
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Posted by: @dwai

I think everyone we encounter in life is a teacher in some way or another. Can we let stuff go? Or do we have to react?

Huzzah.  The sage throws no one away.

The easiest way for me to recoup from an encounter like that is to remember that we are all One.  That irritating person is us.

The benefit of running into an irritating person is that it is a mirror into ourselves.  Granted, the fluffy dog thing doesn't seem to offer much of an example, but if you were upset over his fluffy dog attitude, then it sounds like there was another dynamic building up, and the fluffy dog comment was the last straw.  If you can find the real dynamic, then use it to your advantage and reverse it if necessary.  Usually just the awareness of an inner blockage (or remnant from childhood, etc) will start the process of it peeling away on its own.  But if the imprint is too deep, then I would strengthen the reverse imprint with a ceremony of some sort.  Something to set the reversal aside and make it stand out in your life.  Deep healings can be done from the discovery, awareness, and reversal (or removal) of these early imprints.


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Miroku
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@manitou

Oh, those are some real words of wisdom!

Yes, it definitely was a deeper process. I mean, don't get me wrong I am usually pretty chill. Looking back it seems it was mostly unhealthy the way we interacted and it is better to part ways. The problem is to not hold grudges, but also not forget too easily. Which might be hard, since I have noticed that I am surprisingly bitter when to comes to that person.
My personal idea is that looking at the positive sides of his would help and less focus on the negativities (which might be just perceived/created by me anyway).


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silent_thunder
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Boundaries are paramount to maintaining health within my own mind.  But those boundaries for me are never set in stone and are continually re-addressed as life unfolds.

I wouldn't, nor do I imagine anyone else can or should tell you where your boundaries lie.  I often don't know where my own boundaries lie they are until they've been crossed.

Some challenging folks I dearly appreciate, when their forms of challenge and annoyance do not stray into the abusive.  They ping my assumptions and poke me in ways that allow me to explore the areas of my habitual nature that without their presence, I may not become aware of...  these folks remind me of the 'obstinate brother' story. 

A monk about to travel to Tibet for a year or more, had heard so much of how enlightened, open and loving the people of Tibet were, requested that one of the most obstinate brothers of the order be tasked with traveling with him.  His thinking was that, without the constant pinging of annoyance, his process of awakening would diminish.  To him, the most challenging people are the most helpful in finding where within his own process his limits existed.

Once in Tibet, upon realizing that the people there, were as human as anywhere else... he released his obstinate brother to return to the monestary, his purpose no longer being required on the journey.

However...  the tone and timbre of the behavior is all for me.

There are people who come into my life, it seems, only to show me unequivocally that there are some people I cannot allow to remain in my life, if my life is to be loving, healthy and vital.  Some people I cannot allow to remain in my life.  Perhaps this is the limit of my compassion, or the revelation of my selfishness but I've come to terms with it.

As is the case in my own family.

We had to cut my wife's parents out of our lives completely... almost took out restraining orders on them.  Their systematic abuses came to light when my wife had long buried memories of childhood emerge.

Some folks challenge me in ways I can use as grist for the mill of my unfolding process of learning my True Nature.  Others are rabid mammals incapable of being trusted with the most basic of human decency.  The difference between them, lies in me and my reactions to them.

Our case is very extreme, abusive criminal behavior. 

Boundaries are a much more distinct part of my process now and when I reach them, I no longer fret and dally too long, I act and accept the limits of my process.  

Some folks ping my assumptions in beneficial ways... while there are others who come into my life only to to remind me that I cannot sleep next to a rabid dog.  If I wish to live healthy vitlal and loving, then there are some people that I cannot allow to remain in my life, or I am being complicit in my own abuse.

 


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liminal_luke
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Posted by: @liminal_luke

 

Let´s see...an 18 year old ex-catholic homosexual that doesn´t like fluffy dogs?  Dump him immediately! 

I keep on thinking about this post I made, so I´ll circle back.  It´s just that I have something in common with your annoying friend and it´s not that I´m 18.  Was your friend sending unwanted sexual vibes your way?  That can get annoying, I know.  In our defense, cute guys with dharma wisdom are pretty irresistible.  Compassion please....even if from a (social) distance.


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Miroku
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@liminal_luke

Hah, no really sexual vibes are fine, ofc everything should be in healthy doses. In his case it is mostly something I consider dumb questions, or at least pointless questions. I am not big on useless wondering especially when it does not help anything (but I do like a good philosophical system) so after 2 years I got tired of constant moaning about the future of buddhism (I mean we already know that Buddhism won't last, shame but Dharma will reappear) also how West is useless and the "real" dharma is in the east where they will teach you the "real" stuff. I find that rather insulting as it is first of all not true (coming from someone who doesn't have any experience) and also basically means that my teachers were misleading us. Also the fact that he finds it unable to accept his own inclinations and wants to run away from it as an ascetic or a monk is rather annoying. Don't get me wrong, it is a great aspiration to go full time as a dharma practitioner. It just should come from really wanting it and not from being ashamed that one preffers bananas and not peaches.

Oh stop it I will blush. But next time don't forget to mention that I have also a rather big prayer wheel. ? ? 


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dwai
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 dwai
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Posted by: @miroku

he finds it unable to accept his own inclinations and wants to run away from it as an ascetic or a monk is rather annoying. Don't get me wrong, it is a great aspiration to go full time as a dharma practitioner. It just should come from really wanting it and not from being ashamed that one preffers bananas and not peaches.

 

Very important and valid points. Dharma is not an excuse to run away from our demons. Dharma gives us the ability to stand boldly and face our demons. In any case, running away doesn't work, because as the old saying goes, "wherever you go, there you are" (and your demons go with you, that's why they're your demons) 😀 

 


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Miroku
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Posted by: @dwai

Very important and valid points. Dharma is not an excuse to run away from our demons. Dharma gives us the ability to stand boldly and face our demons. In any case, running away doesn't work, because as the old saying goes, "wherever you go, there you are" (and your demons go with you, that's why they're your demons) 😀 

 

Yeah, there has been enough people quitting 3 year retreats with either slightly damaged mental health or just bailing because surprise surprise samsara is suffering even when you are closed for 3 years with a group of strangers in one house. ? I'd have thought that him being a catholic would help with this realization.


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dwai
 dwai
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@miroku

18-yr olds ar,e after all oversized children. I don't expect much from them. Only after someone crosses 25 is when I expect some maturity...


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Miroku
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@dwai

I am 25 an half... does that count as possibly mature?


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dwai
 dwai
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@miroku

That was just a tongue-in-cheek comment about teenagers ? 

Of course, you demonstrate great maturity! 


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